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¥yes i think you are right on that one neil¥
γνώσεις μου είναι μεγάλη, αλλά το πάθος μου είναι ισχυρότερη
I agree too. The excursions that aim to entertain and satisfy thrill seekers' needs would be completely different to a scientific research. I think it is best to carry out a scientific research and document any findings. Try to offer and debunk any rational or logical explanations first before suggesting the possibility of paranormal activity. I also think that once the scientific investigation has been carried out it would be a super idea to invite psychics/mediums along to see whether they confirm the findings. Obviously you would not give them any indications of your findings prior to their visit. I think on this basis there would be enough proof to actually be able to say yes this place is haunted or vice versa. A lot of activity can be explained and i always look for the rational and sometimes ludicrous explanations before considering it to be paranormal. :-)
Hi Angel, welcome to the site. Psychic ability is unproven so I think it would be ethically and scientifically wrong to use them psychics in any aspect of an investigation. THis does not however mean that the psychics themselves cannot be investigated, by taking to a location.
Hi, thank you for the welcome and for the reply. Yes I understand what you are saying they are obviously working with completely techniques. Incidentally however, you say that psychic ability is unproven... how would you suggest it could be proven? What would satisfy you personally that it does in fact exist? And (i hope you don't mind me asking you) but if you do believe in the paranormal and spirit activity why don't you believe that the ability to connect with these spirits is possible? Just as a matter of interest :-)
I think some psychics are just fakes, they have been proven to be. I also think truly that some are having genuine strange experiences but I don't know what those are yet and that is coming from someone with a family with spiritualist connections. Are psychics having some kind of supernatural experience? I hope so, but I am very dubious that after over 100 years of spiritualist communication and scientific study, it still is not proven or accepted by the scientific community, therefore, there must be a problem somewhere. Now what if the voices being heard and images being seen are not spirit, but instead turn out to be some kind of mental illness and all the correct answers they provide are nothing more than chance or coincidence. Therefore I am not personally interested in information received from spirit, I am more interested in how they got the information. Was it pictures in their head, feelings, voices, a spirit guide, channeling or whatever, and what are the mechanisms behind them.
I have come across psychics that have gone into peoples homes and told them evil/angry spirits are there and they have to move house, or upset/worry the home owners enough to consider this. What if the haunting experiences they may have had could be explained away by bad plumbing, all of a sudden the psychic has made the situation much worse.
Paranormal investigations are not all grand castles, they are more often than not peoples homes and therefore ethically you have to be very sure and very careful about you do and introducing a total unknown such as pyschics into the mix is not a good idea and could cause undue distruption and create an unsettling situation. Yes I do know some can put peoples minds at ease, but telling someone there is a spirit in their house (a supernatural intelligent personality), when there is not proof that these exist yet cannot be good.
I do think psychics should take part in investigations, as they are no doubt very interested in the field, but I would like them to play the role of an investigator and anything they pick up should not be reported back to the client but perhaps kept to one side as part of a study of their ability.
hi again, I think you make some very valid points here. However, when talking about scientific proof etc How can something that cannot be seen be measured!? Science is based on collating evidence that can be documented, analysed and compared ie physical useable evidence. Spirituality is just that, spiritual! you also say that after 100 years there still isn't enough evidence to support it. I always go by the rule that if something answers more questions than it raises then it can't really be wrong, just because it can't be measured doesn't not mean it is not real. I completely agree that there are many many fakes out there as there is in any profession. There are good doctors and bad doctors etc etc! A real psychic/clairvoyant would not tell someone to move out of their house because there is an evil spirit...if they come across a negative earthbound spirit a good one would help the spirit to move on and not create alarm to the families. I am not the kind of person that is easily convinced of anything even after my own experiences! However, on a very random visit to a clairvoyant i was utterly convinced because the information i was given could not have applied to just anybody! It was far too specific to me! and without any remote possibility of information being found etc it is not possible for her to have known these things without some kind of insight. I like the scientific investigative side because i also like to see solid proof of things but i do think that both, science and spiritual could compliment each other's works. Separate investigations and compare notes afterwards!!
On the flip side of one of your other point... over the centuries when people have been committed for hearing voices, having visions and talking to people nobody else coud see, how do we know that they were not in fact insane but experiencing psychic episodes without realising it. If they are showing no other signs of 'madness' but voices and visions it is a very arguable and plausible possiblity (albeit hard to measure because some people are dangerous, this is very different). If they were suffering mental illness would they not improve with the medications and therapies they were receiving? It does beg the question. Don't think for one minute that i am saying all institutionalised mentally ill patients are psychic because that is very far from what i am saying.
As you can probably tell, i am doing a lot of reading on both scientific and spiritual sides to the paranormal at the minute and completely believe in both of them. :-)
Hi Angel, there are some very questionable people out there claiming psychic ability and some very very nice genuine people who fully believe in what they are doing and have high moral standards and would not do any harm intentionally. But we must always be aware of the other type and nothing attracts strange people like the paranormal.
I think the healthiest way to approach psychic ability is to accept that we don't know what it is and that it is a valid field to study. I have had experiences with psychics and I am happy that they are not all fakes, but I am not convinced of the whole package yet and that they are using some supernatural ability. But I do think studying it with a scientific methodolgy rather than a spiritual approach is the right way forward. If for no other reason, it will never be proven or accepted otherwise. Whatever it turns out to be.
By the way, I am not saying all psychics are mentally ill :) But it does strike me a bit strange that if someone said "I am hearing voices in my head" we would think maybe there is a mental problem. If they said "I can hear spirit talking to me", we give them a TV show.
Whilst there are questions regarding their ability we cannot really use them as tools to investigate hauntings. We cannot explain an unknown by using a unknown. Ghosts and haunting like experiences may actually have absolutely nothing to do with spirits. The spiritualists may turn out to be right and they do talk to spirits, but that does not mean ghosts might not be something seperate and more mundane, such as hallucinations for instance. There seems be this notion that they are all interconnected and therefore seem to shore each other up, but maybe the best way forward is just totally seperating them and treating them as totally differant subjects.
I am glad your doing a lot of reading, it is the best advice I can give anyone, but always question what your reading. Also note that some of the spiritual books may contain a lot of pseudosciance.
What would I want as proof of survival of death and spirit communication? What about if the law was to accept the testimony of murder victims at the trial of their murders via a medium. If it ever gets that far then there should be enough evidence to support spirit communication.
You offer a very balanced argument here which is always a good thing. I am always open to discussion and can consider what is said and what you say makes complete sense. I agree that there is not enough evidence to fully 'prove' anything paranormal no matter which side you are looking at it from and i find this rather fascinating! With today's technology and the vast amounts of mediums its extraordinary in itself that nothing can be seen as proof. There are photographs, voice recorders, readings etc etc etc and also very accurate accounts of events from mediums yet still it is not enough. I think its because there are still too many people that don't understand it and people won't accept what they don't understand. I think its all a matter of taste and satisfaction, if it's what interests you then its fine.
How weird would it be if medium's testimonies at murder trials were valid eh! Wow that would be strange! Not sure i would go for that one myself, as you say there are many many frauds out there and this kind of thing could never be conclusive could it!!?
Thanks for your replies, its made interesting reading :-)
Likewise, it has been nice chatting Angel :)
I think if you can get excited about the research and enjoy what you are doing, you'll probably find just as much enjoyment in finding a natural explanation as you would coming across something that is just too strange to explain.....yet.
This small and ancient church has a plethora of legends and traditions associated with it, making it one of the most important mysterious sites on the Isle of Lewis. Read More »