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Milesians ( Scythians ) Discuss?


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BaronIveagh
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Re: Milesians ( Scythians ) Discuss?

To really twist your noodle, Milesia (as in the one in Anatolia) was a Hellenic colony itself.  They were Greeks.  Miletus being directly across the Aegean Sea from Athens.  It was famous for it's doctors, scientists, and architects.  Most notably during the 5th century BC, Thales of Miletus formulated what many consider the origins of Greek Philosophy.

Egypt was part of the Persian Empire at the time of Alexander. Artaxerxes had defeated Nectanebo II (Nakhthorheb) during the reign of Philip, Alexander's father.  Nectanebo II had driven the Persians out of Egypt early in his carreer, before being soundly defeated at the second Battle of Pelusium and fled south into Ethiopia and was more or less never heard from again. 

The reason that Miles needs Nectanebo II's daughter is that in certain (unlikely) versions of the story, Nectanebo II is secretly Alexander the Great's father, not Philip.  As Miles is supposedly a great warrior and conqueror, they wanted that tie to Alexander to give his 'sons' a pedegree of conquest.

Egypt remained a Persian vassal until Alexander's invasion.

At this time, the Sarmatians were still East of the Sea of Azov and considered to be the worst sort of barbarians by the majority of Hellenic cultures.

Scota is the latin singular for Scoti, the term the Roman's used for pretyty much any gaelic speaking raider, in much the same way 'viking' became a catch all for later sea raiders.

(So, yes, the 'Soldier of HIspania' marries 'Irish Raider' to give birth to "irishman' and 'Ireland'.)

As far as the Irish calender, they had thier own calender for events within the year, but for longer periods of time, they tended to use the Julian calender most of Europe had absorbed from the Romans.

Summum Nec Metuam Diem Nec Optima

MacNova
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Re: Milesians ( Scythians ) Discuss?

 You are indeed correct there are not one but two Scota's in Irish History. The one you nare referring to I have found nothing to support . Not to mention the route they took is rather a round about route :) 

Hereis what I collected on the life of Mil prior to arriving in Spain... I will make a convincing case for Aquataine shortly.
Children Heremon (Éremón)
...Now Pharoah had a daughter named Scota, and Mil asked for that maiden, and Pharoah gave her to him: and that Scota bore two sons to him, Amorgen Glungel and Eber their names. It is then that Alexander, king of the world, drove out that Pharaoh, for he was not submissive to him, and expelled him southward into southern Eithiopia...
This is the starting point of my dating when I made the connection between Alexander the Great and Mil and tied him in with Nectanebo II in 343 BC and it all worked. This was the first date I triangulated but it was just the first of many. This date when using my 20 year generation dating system was only out two years over a 2500 years period.
Galamh was variously known as Milesius, Milethea Spaine, Milo Spaine, Mileadh or simply Mil. He had wanderlust, and desired to travel back to the lands of his ancestors. He left his family (he had, it was said, something like twenty-four sons by this time) and set off for Scythia, where he was warmly welcomed by his distant cousins. He was even given the hand of Seang, the daughter of the king of Scythia, in marriage. But despite the initial reception, he came to be at odds with the reigning king of Scythia. The king had made him an army commander, but grew jealous of Milesius as ‘the man of Spain’s fame increased. The king plotted to have Milesius put to death, but Milesius became aware of the plot, and slew the king before he could act. According to the legend, Seang bore him two sons, but had died prior to this incident, and so Milesius set off alone, journeying toward Egypt to the south, where, legend told him, his ancestor, Niul had found favor with the Pharoah. At Egypt, Milesius likewise found favor with the then-reinging Pharoah Nectonibus. He joined the Pharoah in his war with Ethiopia, and for his valor, was given lands and the hand of Scota, the daughter of Pharoah, in marriage. The wife and eight sons that she bore to him, Milesius gladly accepted, but he was not long interested in the lands offered him by Pharoah Nectonibus. And so, he and Scota and their sons left Egypt after eight years there, and journeyed westward across the length of the Mediterranean Sea with the intention of settling on the island that his uncle Ithe had once espied. Enroute, Milesius received word that his family at Galacia were in trouble with enemies attacking them. He subdued the attackers, but he either had not the strength or the motivation to continue on to Eire. Milesius was destined to die in Galacia.
It was the sons of Milesius and his two wives, Seang and Scota, who would undertake, and successfully complete a conquest of Eire. They were Heber (variously, Eibhear), Ir, Dond (variously, Donn), Amergin (variously, Amhairghin Glungheal), Airech (variously, Aireach), Colpha, Heremon (variously, Eireamhoin) and Arannan (variously, Erannan).
The Sun House near the historic Galle (Gael) Fort in Sri Lanka.

taprobane island




(Mil leaves) A great wind came upon them, which carried them eastward in the ocean, past India, past Cirord, past Golgardoma, past the estuary of the Ganges, to the island of Taprobane, and they landed therein.
I guess it was a popular destination even back in 343 BC. If you read below I think perhaps that Mil was none other than Parmenion who had a hand in murdering Philip of Macedonia who the Miletians were havin some problems with at the time in Miletus. It was said he was executed but I think perhaps he was exiled to Taprobane or perhaps escaped to there to keep a low profile. But this is just an uneducated guess on my part.
Taprobane Island Sun House was originally built in the 1920’s by the romantically named but self-styled Count de Mauny-Talvande. The island with its neo Palladian mansion has played host to kings, queens, presidents, prime ministers, aristocracy, writers and eccentrics, giving it a very colorful history, which guests can now share.

The Island comprises 2 ½ acres of sheer tropical fantasy with nothing between it and the South Pole. Accommodation is provided for in 5 en-suite bedrooms, with spacious living areas, balconies, verandahs, tropical gardens and a stunning infinity pool. A staff of 5 caters for your every need; in fact after arrival, guests frequently never leave the Island until their departure.
Sri Lanka’s only privately owned island.  The No.1 address in the Indian Ocean.
Sri Lanka is the fabled Ophir.


MacNova
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Re: Milesians ( Scythians ) Discuss?

 Continued...

Sri Lanka is the fabled Ophir.
Carthage also traded with India by traveling through the Red Sea and the perhaps-mythical lands of Ophir which is Sri Lanka and Punt, which is Garamantes.
Ophir in Genesis 10 (the Table of Nations) is said to be the name of one of the sons of Joktan. Biblical references to the land of Ophir are also found in 1 Kings 9:28; 10:11; 22:48; 1 Chronicles 29:4; 2 Chronicles 8:18; Book of Job 22:24; 28:16; Psalms 45:9; Isaiah 13:12.
John Masefield, “Cargoes”
Quinquireme of Nineveh from distant Ophir,
Rowing home to haven in sunny Palestine,(Havenor, Heaven is Home not a place where gods live)
With a cargo of ivory,
And apes and peacocks,
Sandalwood, cedarwood, and sweet white wine.
Information
Details about the three of Joktan‘s sons, Sheba, Ophir and Havilah, were preserved in a tradition known in divergent forms from three pre-Islamic Arabic and Ethiopic sources: the Kitab al-Magall (part of Clementine literature), the Cave of Treasures, and the Conflict of Adam and Eve with Satan.
The Kitab al-Magall states that in the days of Reu, a king of Saba (Sheba) named “Pharoah” annexed Ophir and Havilah to his kingdom, and “built Ophir with stones of gold, for the stones of its mountains are pure gold.”
In the Cave of Treasures, this appears as: “And the children of Ophir, that is, Send, appointed to be their king Lophoron, who built Ophir with stones of gold; now, all the stones that are in Ophir are of gold.”
The version in the Conflict of Adam and Eve says: “Phar’an reigned over the children of Saphir [Ophir], and built the city of Saphir with stones of gold; and that is the land of Sarania, and because of these stones of gold, they say that the mountains of that country and the stones thereof are all of gold.”
(Conflict of Adam and Eve seems to be a well-developed economy for a planet with just two people on it?)
This is Fort Galle (Gael) not far from Taprobane Island. Gimhathiththa (Gimli time to time eats here) as it was once known, was built by the Portugese of all peoples… Portugal comes from Port of the Gaels.





Mílid Espáine, Míl Espáne, Míl Easpáine, Míle Easpáin, Míled, Mílead, Míleadh, Miles, Mille Easpain
[Irish, soldier of Spain; cf. Latin miles Hispaniae]

Eponymous founder of the Milesians, final mythic invaders of Ireland in the Lebor Gabála [Book of Invasions], and fictional (I beg to differ) ancestor of the Irish people. Born with the name Golam or Galam, Míl bore a distinguished pedigree, tracing his line through Bile, grandfather Breogan, twenty more Irish names, and thirteen Hebrew names back to Adam.(Here is the fictional part of his history) Although his usual name, Míl Espáine (clearly a title), links him with Spain, descriptions of his early career place him in Scythia, a region the subject of much fanciful speculation in early Irish literature. His service initially so pleases the king of Scythia that Míl is made army commander and marries the king's daughter Seang, who bears him two sons, Donn and Erech Febria, before dying an early death. Discovering a plot against him, Míl murders Seang's father and flees from Scythia in sixty ships to Egypt. There he serves Pharaoh Nectanebus as army commander in a successful war against the Ethiopians; on this point the authors of the Lebor Gabála had studied their sources, as there are indeed two pharaohs of the Thirtieth Dynasty named Nectanebus, 380–363 BC and 360–343 BC. Míl marries the Pharaoh's daughter Scota  [Latin, Irish-woman], who bears him two sons while in Egypt, Éber Finn and Amairgin ; a third son, Ír, is born near Thrace, and a fourth, Colptha, is born on an island in the Mediterranean. Remembering the druid Caicer's prophecy that he and his people would settle in Ireland, Míl departs from Egypt and sails west. But hearing that Spain is menaced by villains, he stops in his homeland and triumphs in many battles. Sometime later Míl dies of unspecified causes, never reaching Ireland himself. His kin who do reach Ireland include his uncle Íth, his wife Scota [Irish woman], and many of his sons. The number of sons attributed to him ranges as high as thirty-two, counting his by-blows from adventures in Spain and Scythia, but the most conventional number is eight, a distinction he shares with the Welsh Cunedda. Disregarding their mothers, his most important sons are Éber and Éremón, who later divide Ireland between themselves, and then Ír, Donn, Colptha, Amairgin, Erech Febria, and Erannán

MacNova
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Re: Milesians ( Scythians ) Discuss?

 All of what you have stated is historically correct. I am not disputing the histroy I am just looking into one mans family tree :)

Here the Book of Invasions agrees with your history... So its not all bad...

...Three other months had they on the sea, till they reached Egypt: that was at the end of 1,354 years after the first Taking of Ireland by Partholon. Pharoah Nectanebus was king of Egypt at that time. He is the thirty-fifth king after the Pharaoh who was drowned in the Red Sea. Now it was in that time that Alexander the Great, son of Philip, came into Asia and arrived in Egypt, and brought Egypt into obedience to himself, laid Egypt waste, and drove out her king Nectanebus from Egypt into Eithiopia; and a captial city, called Alexandria, was founded by him in Egypt.

MacNova
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Re: Milesians ( Scythians ) Discuss?

 This is who I think Mil Espaine or Golam is...... I give you :)

Nearchus (Golam)
Nearchus Discovers a Sea Route from India to the Arabian Peninsula
Overview
In 325 B.C. the Greek military commander Nearchus undertook a naval expedition from the mouth of the Indus River in what is now Pakistan to that of the Euphrates River in Mesopotamia, or modern Iraq. His voyage served a number of purposes, not least of which was to ferry a large portion of Alexander the Great's fighting force from India back to Greece; but his principal mission was to find a sea route between the Indian sub-continent and the Near East. This he did, in the process making possible much greater trade and exchange between India and lands to the west.
Background
The career of Nearchus (360-312 B.C.), who came from Crete, is inexorably tied with that of his friend and leader, Alexander the Great (356-323 B.C.) Alexander's father, Philip II of Macedon (r. 359-336 B.C.), conquered the Greek city-states with the aim of uniting all of Greece and going on to subdue the dying empire of the Persians. But he was assassinated before he could undertake his mission, so it fell to his son to become the greatest military leader the world has ever known.
Nearchus (Greek: Νέαρχος, Nearchos; c. 360 - 300 BC) was one of the officers, a navarch, in the army of Alexander the Great. His celebrated voyage from India to Susa after Alexander's expedition in India is preserved in Arrian's account, the Indica.
A native of Lato[1] in Crete, his family settled at Amphipolis in Macedonia at some point during Philip II’s reign (we must assume after Philip took the city in 357 BC), at which point Nearchus was probably a young boy. He was almost certainly older than Alexander, as were Ptolemy, Erigyius, and the others of the ‘boyhood friends’[2] ; so depending on when Androtimus came to Macedonia Nearchus was quite possibly born on Crete.
Nearchus, along with Ptolemy, Erigyius and Laomedon, and Harpalus, was one of Alexander’s ‘mentors’ – and he was exiled by Philip as a result of the Pixodarus affair (A 3.6.5; P 10.4). It is not known where the exiles went, but they were recalled only after Philip’s death, on Alexander’s accession.
After their recall, these men were held in the highest honour. Nearchus was appointed as satrap of Lycia and Pamphylia in 334/3 BC (A 3.3.6), one of the earliest of Alexander's satrapal appointments. In 328 BC he was relieved of his post and rejoined Alexander in Bactria, bringing with him reinforcements (A 4.7.2; C 7.10.4, but does not mention Nearchus himself). After the siege of Aornus Nearchus was sent at the head of a reconnaissance mission – especially to find out about elephants (A 4.30.5-6).
Nearchus the Explorer

Map showing voyages of Nearchus and the campaigns of Alexander until shortly after acquiring the Persian Empire - from A History of the Ancient World, George Willis Botsford Ph.D., The MacMillan Company, 1913
In 326 BC, Nearchus was made admiral of the fleet that Alexander had built at the Hydaspes (A 6.2.3; Indica 18.10). However, his trierarchy was a financial responsibility – that is, Nearchus put up the money for the boats (Heckel, p.229); and there were plenty of other trierarchs in the Indus fleet who were not natural born sailors.
During the voyage some of the ships were damaged, and Nearchus was instructed to remain behind to oversee repairs, before continuing down the river. This perhaps indicates some knowledge of shipbuilding, but he could hardly have been the only one qualified.
However, he remained in command of the fleet for the voyage from the Indus to the Persian Gulf, which he recorded in detail (and which was used extensively for Arrian’s Indica). Again, although he was the admiral, in command of the fleet, great seamanship was not required – the naval responsibilities were Onesicritus’. During the voyage, Nearchus was reputedly the first Greek commander to visit Bahrain, which was called Tylos by the Greeks. His visit marked the start of Bahrain's inclusion within the Hellenic world, which culminated in the worship of Zeus (as the Arab sun god, Shams) and Greek being spoken as the language of the upper classes.
After many adventures, Nearchus arrived in Carmania, meeting up with Alexander after the latter’s crossing of the Gedrosian desert. Alexander sent him off to complete his voyage – he went as far as the Euphrates before turning back to rejoin Alexander at Susa, in early 324 BC.
Nearchus married the daughter of Barsine and Mentor (A 7.4.6), and received a crown as recognition of his exertions (A 7.5.6). He then took the fleet up to Babylon, where he gave Alexander the Chaldeans’ warning not to enter the city (P 73.1-2). Nearchus had a place in Alexander’s final plans, as he was to be the admiral of the Arabian invasion fleet; but the plans were cut short by the king’s death.
In the initial arguments over the rule of the empire Nearchus supported Heracles, Alexander’s son by Barsine – the king’s mistress was now his mother-in-law. Once order broke down he joined Antigonus’ camp. His last mention is as an adviser to Demetrius in 313/2 BC (D 19.69.1); what happened after that is not known, although he probably retired to write his history... One of the Annals perhaps of Ireland? Written in Greek Translated to Latin in 1100? I don't know :)

MacNova
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Re: Milesians ( Scythians ) Discuss?

 Most famous for having been an Admiral of Alexander the Great, if Nearchus the Voyager had lived during a time when the great shadow of Alexander cast it’s light over all in the world, he would be remembered as one of the great explorers of history.
Nearchus was born on Crete sometime around 350 B.C., became a tutor of Alexander, and then later explored and charted all of the coast of Alexander’s Asia from the mouth of the Indus to the mouth of the Euphrates.  The reason for the expedition was to open up communication between India and Egypt,  but for Nearchus, the voyage was about traveling and obtaining knowledge of far off lands.
With 2000 men and Nearchus the Explorer scores of ships, Nearchus sailed down the Indus while exploring the delta and then set forth to explore unchartered seas. Before he was through he had explored unknown parts of the Arabian Coast, the Persian Gulf and had begun charting an expedition to the Red Sea.
He was the first Greek to visit Bahrain and one of the great captains of Maritime history. We know of him from the chronicles he wrote of his voyage. The book,  Indikê is now lost, but its contents are well-known from several sources, especially the Indikê by Arrian of Nicomedia and the Geography by Strabo of Amasia.

There was a lagoon at the mouths of the river, and the depressions near the bank were inhabited by natives in stifling cabins. These seeing the convoy sailing up were astounded, and lining along the shore stood ready to repel any who should attempt a landing. They carried thick spears, about six cubits long; these had no iron tip, but the same result was obtained by hardening the point with fire. They were in number about six hundred.
Nearchus observed these evidently standing firm and drawn up in order, and ordered the ships to hold back within range, so that their missiles might reach the shore; for the natives’ spears, which looked stalwart, were good for close fighting, but had no terrors against a volley. Then Nearchus took the lightest and lightest armed troops, such as were also the best swimmers, and bade them swim off as soon as the word was given. Their orders were that, as soon as any swimmer found bottom, he should await his mate, and not attack the natives till they had their formation three deep; but then they were to raise their battle cry and charge at the double.
On the word, those detailed for this service dived from the ships into the sea, and swam smartly, and took up their formation in orderly manner, and having made a phalanx, charged, raising, for their part, their battle cry to the god of War, and those on shipboard raised the cry along with them; and arrows and missiles from the engines were hurled against the natives.
They, astounded at the flash of the armor, and the swiftness of the charge, and attacked by showers of arrows and missiles, half naked as they were, never stopped to resist but gave way. Some were killed in flight; others were captured; but some escaped into the hills.
Those captured were hairy, not only their heads but the rest of their bodies; their nails were rather like beasts’ claws; they used their nails (according to report) as if they were iron tools; with these they tore asunder their fishes, and even the less solid kinds of wood; everything else they cleft with sharp stones; for iron they did not possess. For clothing they wore skins of animals, some even the thick skins of the larger fishes.

Nearchus met his end in the the battle of Ipsu (at least according to some historians) and so was not one of those who picked up the pieces of Alexander’s empire once the great man had perished – although, there are alternate histories which say that he did outlive Alexander and threw his support behind Heracles, the illegitimate son of Alexander. There is no way to determine which account is true.
Oddly, Nearchus is often confused with St. Nearchus, an Armenian Christian who became a Christian saint, despite the fact that the Greek Nearchus lived well before Christ.

martinwall
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Re: Milesians ( Scythians ) Discuss?

Fascinating! Whilst we are in the orient, does anyone know anything about the legend of the "Cymry" (Welsh-men) originating in India/Sri Lanka (Cape Comorin) or Taprobane? I think this was one of the pet theories of "Iolo Morganwg" (Edward Williams) and was taken up by George Borrow who as a philologist was obsessed about linguistic correspondences between Romani, Welsh, Sanskrit, Iranian etc. It seems strangely redolent of the Irish legends. Could they have been the template, since much of Wales was in effect Irish in the "dark ages" (Lleyn is derived from Leinster for instance) and there must have been lively cultural traffic across the sea from time immemorial. Sorry if this is somewhat off the main point!

martinwall
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Re: Milesians ( Scythians ) Discuss?

Fascinating! Whilst we are in the orient, does anyone know anything about the legend of the "Cymry" (Welsh-men) originating in India/Sri Lanka (Cape Comorin) or Taprobane? I think this was one of the pet theories of "Iolo Morganwg" (Edward Williams) and was taken up by George Borrow who as a philologist was obsessed about linguistic correspondences between Romani, Welsh, Sanskrit, Iranian etc. It seems strangely redolent of the Irish legends. Could they have been the template, since much of Wales was in effect Irish in the "dark ages" (Lleyn is derived from Leinster for instance) and there must have been lively cultural traffic across the sea from time immemorial. Sorry if this is somewhat off the main point!

MacNova
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Re: Milesians ( Scythians ) Discuss?

Now here you see a line from Adam to Mil Espaine Now with Mil being found in proper time at 343 BC The Irish history now intersects with the history of Carthage in perfect syncronization. The Irish Histories Beginning at Generation 23 and ending at generation 32 yes looks like Ireland was Carthage. Well at least these few generations passed that way.

From (1) Adam, his son (2) Seth, his son (3) Enos, his son (4) Cainan, his son (5) Mahalaleel, his son (6) Jared, his son (7) Enoch, his son (8) Methuselah, his son (9) Lamech, his son (10) Noah, his son (11) Japhet, his son (12) Magog, his son (13)Baoth "to whom Scythia came has his lot," his son (14) Phoeniusa Farsaidh (Fenius Farsa) King of Scythia, his son (15) Gaodhal (Gathelus), his son (16) Asruth, his son (17) Sruth (who fled Egypt to Creta), his son (18) Heber Scut (returned to Scythia), his son (19) Beouman, King of Scythia, his son (20) Ogaman King of Scythia, his son (21) Tait King of Scythia, his son (22) Agnon (who fled Scythia by sea with the majority of his people), his son

(23) Lamhfionn (who led his people to Gothia or Getulia, where Carthage was afterwards built), his son (24) Heber Glunfionn King of Gothia, his son (25) Agnan Fionn King of Gothia, his son (26) Febric Glas King of Gothia, his son (27) Nenuall King of Gothia, his son (28) Nuadhad King of Gothia, his son (29) Alladh King of Gothia, his son (30) Arcadh King of Gothia, his son (31) Deag King of Gothia, his son (32) Brath King of Gothia (who left Gothia with a large band of his people and settled in GaliciaSpain), his son

(33) BreoghanKing of Galicia, AndalusiaMurciaCastile, and Portugal, his son (34) Bile King of Galicia, Andalusia, Murcia, Castile, and Portugal, and his son (35) Galamh (also known as Milesius of Spain) King of Galicia, Andalusia, Murcia, Castile, and Portugal. 

 

563 BC   Lamhfionn / Mago I Of Carthage

 

543 BC Heber Glunfionn Of Gothia/Hasdrubal I Of Carthage

523 BC Agnan Fionn Of Gothia/Hamilcar I Of Carthage (523 Bc) 150

 

503 Febric Glas / Hanno The Navigator 


483 Nenuall /Himilco King Of Gothia

 

463 BC Nuadhat/Hannibal (Mago) King Of Gothia


443 BC Alldóit (Alladh) Himilco King Of Gothia

 

423 BC Deag (Mango III) Of King Of Gothia


403 Brath  King Of Galicia 
 

383 Breoghan (Brigus) King Of Galicia
 

363 Bilé King Of Galicia

 

343 BC Galahad (Míl Espáne) 

 

323 Heremon (Éremón)
 

303 Irial (Arial) Faidh

 

283 Ethrial 

 

263 Follach

 

243 Tigernmas

 

223 Enboath
 

203 Smiomghall

 

183 Fiacha Labhrainn

 

163 Àengus Olmuccaid

 

143 Móen (Maen)

 

123 Rotheachtach (Rothschild)

 

103 Dian

 

83 Siorna Saoghalach

 

63 Ailill (Olioll) Oalchláen (Ollom Fotla)

 

43 Gialchadh  

 

23 Nuadu Finn Fail

Sorry for the messy paste came off my spread sheet. but its still easy to follow.

MacNova
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Re: Milesians ( Scythians ) Discuss?

 The obvious delema this presents is that its only 22 generations to Adam From Agnon or 440 years placing Adam at around 700 BC. That cannot be correct. And it is not. I found more Irish ancestors of Mil along the way in fact I found 8000 years or there abouts all related father to son with dates and names..Quite a list indeed :)

 Another thing you may or may not find interesting is What this time line does to the Tautha De Danannu.

Thru looking at different chronologies the one thing I have found in common is that if you yo far enough back in any one lineage the Line goes from History to Legend to Myth. History is recorded Ledgend is passed on but no proof can be found to authenticate it and Myth seems to be any Legend or king that predates any bible era. Which makes sense because anything before 4000 BC didn't exist. SO if you were a monk or christian scholar you would only be recording the truthand the ancient gibberish well just could not have existed for the simple reason God created the earth around 4000 BC so anything before that was just impossible. There for had to be either lies or just made up. 



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