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pagan holidays and the Gregorian calender


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bedb
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Modern Wiccans confuse me....if I were to embrace a pagan religion it would be Celtic Revisionist...or whatever the correct name for that is.

One of the things that confuses me is all these pagan groups use the Gregorian calender to celebrate Samhain, Beltane (and these is even one Wiccan group at refuses to acknowlegde the male element)

The dating of most of these holidays occurred when the Julian calender was in use...so technically these folks are celebrating Samhain at the wrong time of the year. It should be later. Like Old Calender Orthodox Christmas is Jan 5th. (25th for them....5th for the Gregorian calender)

Does it really matter that these modern religions are using the wrong dates? I mean if you really believe in Samhain...then wouldn't you want to celebrate it the same time the spirits do?  

bedb
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Re: pagan holidays and the Gregorian calender

I wanted to add because I'm still pondering this...that Feb 2...Bridget's Day would actually be closer to modern Valentine's Day on the old calender.

Are there any pagan groups keeping to the old dates or is it not important?

Mauro
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Re: pagan holidays and the Gregorian calender

I've heard a few "traditionalist" groups still use the Julian calendar but, frankly, I've never met anyone from their numbers who could confirm this.

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"Louhi spoke in riddled tones of three things to achieve: find and catch the Devil's Moose and bring it here to me. Seize the Stallion born of Fire, harness the Golden Horse. He captured and bound the Moose, he tamed the Golden Horse. Still there remained one final task: hunt for the Bird from the Stream of Death"

-Kalevala, Rune XIII-


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indiagold
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Re: pagan holidays and the Gregorian calender

oh dear you have confused me-is there a thread on the site to tell us a potted history of these calendars and how they differ and why?
However I do see the point -as if the particular day is important ie to do with planetary alignments or whatever,
you would have to get it right

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indiagold
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Mauro
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Re: pagan holidays and the Gregorian calender

Everything you may want to know about calendars (comprising a handy converter) is here: www.fourmilab.ch/documents/calendar/

__________________

"Louhi spoke in riddled tones of three things to achieve: find and catch the Devil's Moose and bring it here to me. Seize the Stallion born of Fire, harness the Golden Horse. He captured and bound the Moose, he tamed the Golden Horse. Still there remained one final task: hunt for the Bird from the Stream of Death"

-Kalevala, Rune XIII-


bedb
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Re: pagan holidays and the Gregorian calender

thank you

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indiagold
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Re: pagan holidays and the Gregorian calender

and thank you again-good resource

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indiagold
Always keep an open mind about things; But make sure your brain doesn't fall out.


esmeraldamac
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Re: pagan holidays and the Gregorian calender

So, is it important to non-pagans to celebrate Christmas on the day that Christ was actually born? In which case, December 25th/5th Jan are almost certainly both wrong. And as for Easter... well, we all know that was cobbled together in Whitby and as it varies from year to year, it's certainly no anniversary.

Pagans set a lot of store by actual solstices, which are astronomically-defined and nothing to do with any man-devised calendar. They celebrate midwinter at actual midwinter (not Christmas!), and midsummer at actual midsummer (not St. John's Eve!). So they're getting something right.

As for the other dates, they're traditional.

Just like Christmas.

bedb
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Re: pagan holidays and the Gregorian calender

I do not honor Christmas as the birth of Christ...I know better...and it's become more of a business holiday to most people as opposed to a religious one. Easter....pascha is the name I actually like better...is set according to the stars and such...but I'm not that knowledgeable. I actually believe in Christ and the old gods....it works in my head.

I do know that most pagans follow the solstices...but my point is this.....I use the Julian calender to determine Samhain....Beltine....Lughnasa. Nor do I recognize a winter Yule. If these days are magical days....I don't think the magical beings went...oh wait Pope Gregory has changed the time. Using the Gregorian conversion posted below Imbolc on the Julian calender is January 20 which it is not....but Valentine's day on the Gregorian calender is the day before Julian Imbolc. The creator of the Gregorian calender set it for a time when the ewes would not be in lambing mode. The Gregorian calender was designed for many reasons...but one of them was to upset the anceint observances.

http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/calendar/ 

I simply wanted to create a topic of discussion.

Wiccaman
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Re: pagan holidays and the Gregorian calender

The seasons set the dates or rather the time of events

When survival depends on when to plant and not when Tescos are open the sun and moon are more important than "30/31 days have such a month"

The shortest and longest days must be the two most important of the year

bedb
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Re: pagan holidays and the Gregorian calender

I agree with your comment where planting and harvesting and the killing of livestock is considered. My grandparents never slaughtered a hog before the first frost.

But as you know....February 1 Gregorian time is in January Julian time. This is not the time of lambing. Lambs born in January Julian C. will suffer greatly and risk death. I celebrate OC Imbolc on Valentine's day Gregorian. Since I live in Texas, USA there are babies on the ground, but they are put up at night and it rarely gets deadly cold here.

Nor do I recognize Oct. 31 Gregorian as Samhain. It's why all the church Harvest festivals don't bug me. The real Samhain is several weeks later, and as a person who believes in the otherside....that is the night I am most interested in. I do not believe the spirits change their activities because men change their calenders.

This is me and I am not advocating everyone should do what I do.



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