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Ian Topham's picture
Ian Topham
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I don't know much about UFO's or Alien Abduction cases, though I have been genuinely intrigued by some of the ones I have read about. I believe that statistically there must be life somewhere else apart from Earth but I remain sceptical about aliens visiting here. I tend to see and hear a lot about the Grey aliens and once at a conference I overheard someone talking about an alien with seven interchangeable heads . Are there any others that you have come across in cases and do certain types of alien prefer certain geographic locations to visit?

S Graham
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Reading up on UFO's - the

Reading up on UFO's - the lack of specifics on encounters now lends UFO's to be termed UAP's or Unidentified Arial Phenomenon as the word Object is a bit too descriptive for what even Abductees have witnessed close up, due to the strangeness of the encounters reported. This is also true of the reports of aliens too - I recall the book (and movie) of the Travis Walton ebduction referred to the aliens faces as more like masks, or as part of suits, hence interchangeable.

Certainly the Greys are popular, but there are also Nordic humanoid types (popular amongst the Contactee groups of the 60's, but not entirely discredited), the humanoid men in black types threatening witnesses in America, and even furry devlish creatures, goblins plus a whole slew of fairytale type descriptions - including the idea that past fairy reports may be linked to abductions.

I think due to the nuts and bolts approach of American Ufology aliens are explained away in ready made hollywood terms whilst European encounters still hold a psychological aspect.

An interesting aspect of encounters linked to the flurry of sightings in America in the last half of the last century was the linking of UFO sightings to powerlines across the country. In the UK and USA UFO sightings have also occurred around power stations. Abduction and witness testimony linked these to grey and nordic type alien sightings.

Food for thought!

Ian Topham's picture
Ian Topham
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S Graham wrote: including
S Graham wrote:

including the idea that past fairy reports may be linked to abductions.

Good point Stephen. I think that some of the folk tales such as fairy rings and people being taken to the Otherworld only to return later have elements in common with alien abductions. It would be interesting to see if sites where these tales were suposed to occur are also noted for UFO sitings or abductions.

Mauro
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Jacques Vallee (you'll hear

Jacques Vallee (you'll hear me quote him VERY often on the whole UFO/fairies subject) always used a very different approach to the matter.
He said that an advanced civilization, capable of interstellar travels and other marvelous feats of engineering, wouldn't probably need to abduct such large numbers of men and women to carry out their own tests. Even if they had to it would be probably much more convenient to "erase" their memory or, even better, to use some kind of anaesthesia all along.
Moreover most of these so called "tests" seem incredibly crude, violent and primitive by modern standards. They seem more directed at causing pain and humiliation than at gathering useful biological datas.
Vallee also warned about hypnosis: in his book "Confrontations", he says how he found out, with the help of some professional hypnotherapists, how difficult it is not implant "false memories" starting from the very first session. His position in recent years has become even more hostile to hypnosis and I agree with him.
But he also agrees that many witnesses are absolutely honest and trustworthy, as proves some VERY disturbing case he investigated.
All in all I tend to agree with him "I would be much disappointed if UFOs turned out to be just intergalactic vessels from an davanced civilization".

__________________

"Louhi spoke in riddled tones of three things to achieve: find and catch the Devil's Moose and bring it here to me. Seize the Stallion born of Fire, harness the Golden Horse. He captured and bound the Moose, he tamed the Golden Horse. Still there remained one final task: hunt for the Bird from the Stream of Death"

-Kalevala, Rune XIII-


S Graham
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I don't think the idea that

I don't think the idea that Aliens or UFO's being extra terrestrial answers any questions. I actually think the SETI project is a waste of time in finding aliens. The alternate universe theory/paranormal theory I find appealing, and the strangeness of UFO sightings seems to get lost in the nuts and bolts of the reports - people report alien abduction, but the details of how they got abducted and the crudeness of the examinations do ask more questions. Most abductions seem to lead to diversion and paranoia, etc

BUFORA has a policy of not using hypnosis exactly for the reasons stated by Mauro. I agree.

Ian Topham's picture
Ian Topham
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I must admit I am not keen

I must admit I am not keen on the idea of UFO's being aliens. I believe aliens must exist but not that they are visiting us here and especially not in the numbers that are being reported. I think that is actually the key point, there are way too many sightings.

Mauro
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Well Ian, the "too many

Well Ian, the "too many sightings" argument has been used by many serious UFO researchers, including Vallee himself, Aimee Michel and Jim and Coral Lorenzen.
The main problem with the whole UFO business is witnesses' credibility. Of course you have the obviously insane or mentally unbalanced, not to mention the outright frauds, but many witnesses are honest, straightforward and, more often than not, they stand to lose credibility when they "come forward" with their experiences. These persons obviously experienced something unusual: I know because I am one of them (more on this later).
Are the skeptics gonna call all these persons (including respected scientists, expert pilots and down-to-earth farmers) liars and deluded?
But there's also a darker side of the whole UFO business. During the '60s and the '70s the CIA and some other intelligence agencies reportedly infiltrated many UFO research groups: the most common theory is that they did so to "discredit and mislead", so as to cover various secret activities (testing of experimental aircrafts using alien technologies being one of these). While it's obviously possible there are also other hypothesis, some of which very disturbing and probably more convincing.
Michel and Vallee investigated a case in France when a young man disappeared from his apartment without leaving trace and was found wandering in a field a few days later. Local authorities ruled out a kidnapping since there was no reason to kidnap such a person. He had no motivation to leave all of a sudden nor commit suicide, nor he was on drugs.
They were totally at loss, even more so when they interrogated the young man afterwards. He had absolutely no memory of what happened to him. It seemed like a classic alien abduction case.
Later investigations by GEPAN members picked up a trail which pointed to one of France's many and shadowy intelligence agencies.
Vallee met with one of their agents which admitted their responsability in the abduction. He claimed that the young man was put in a "state of altered consciousness" for the whole duraation of the abduction. When asked the obvious question ("Why?") he refused more details. Of course this could be a fraud but we all know what intelligence agencies are capable of.
Also consider the UMMO case. Today we all know it was most likely a huge fraud but many of theories the "visitors" handed to their contactees was no crackpot physics or New Age mumbo-jumbo. It came straight from the notes of Dr. Andrei Sakharov, one of the most innovative and original theoretical physicists of the XX century. Most of this material has been published only in recent years but clearly somebody had access to this material at the time and was ready to hand it out. KGB? Perhaps... but why?

__________________

"Louhi spoke in riddled tones of three things to achieve: find and catch the Devil's Moose and bring it here to me. Seize the Stallion born of Fire, harness the Golden Horse. He captured and bound the Moose, he tamed the Golden Horse. Still there remained one final task: hunt for the Bird from the Stream of Death"

-Kalevala, Rune XIII-


Ian Topham's picture
Ian Topham
User offline. Last seen 8 hours 38 min ago. Offline
Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Involvement of Intelligence

Involvement of Intelligence Agencies is another, more sinister aspect of the UFO anomally that I haven't come across before. I said I was a UFO novice. I've spent most of my time focusing on hauntings.

Mauro wrote:

many witnesses are honest, straightforward and, more often than not, they stand to lose credibility when they "come forward" with their experiences. These persons obviously experienced something unusual: I know because I am one of them

Your also right about witnesses sometimes being nervous to come forward regardless to what aspect of the paranormal they have experienced. I've also found some the best psychics I know try to keep it hidden. One of the reasons UFO's do intrigue me is that I have also witnessed one with Dan back in our late teens. 

Mauro
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Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Like yourself I "came back"

Like yourself I "came back" from a specific area of research: for the past few years I have concentrated on cryptozoology but recently I am coming back to my "first loves", namely UFOs and anything "damned" in a Fortean way. Why? Perhaps I'll tell another day.

__________________

"Louhi spoke in riddled tones of three things to achieve: find and catch the Devil's Moose and bring it here to me. Seize the Stallion born of Fire, harness the Golden Horse. He captured and bound the Moose, he tamed the Golden Horse. Still there remained one final task: hunt for the Bird from the Stream of Death"

-Kalevala, Rune XIII-


S Graham
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Joined: 16 Oct 2008
Yes in the early days of

Yes in the early days of ufology flying saucers were considered more probably russian or secret US missiles than anything else, and the US airforce infiltrated the early groups to prevent any disclosure of evidence, or at worst provided disinformation and discredited the investigators.
Considering the early UFO groups were popular worldwide, the campaign to infiltrate them was also quite widespread, although some individuals took it upon themselves to hoax groups to as part of their debunking plans.

Mauro
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Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Brazil and the rest of South

Brazil and the rest of South America have had many spectacular sightings over the years: some of these sightings concentrated on mysterious objects hovering over powerplants. Sometimes equipment failure was reported but in most cases the UFO seemed content to hover there and put on a good show.
The Latin American UFO scene has been largely overlooked but it has provided us with some astonishing cases and some good physical evidences. It is curious to note that in Latin America, differently from the US or Europe, UFOs are considered indifferent to humans if not downright hostile, like the "Chupas" case demonstrate.
On a lighter note GEPAN was once called by the Gendarmerie in a remote location in rural France to investigate a UFO case: a fiery fireball was seen flying over a powerline and, as a side effect, a number of fishes in a pond under the flypath of the fireball were found dead.
GEPAN called in the EDF (Electricité de France) to help in the investigations and they quickly solved the case: a malfunction in a transformer, coupled with an old, damaged cable, caused the insulation to catch fire and melt. The fishes died of poisoning, caused by the melted insulation.

__________________

"Louhi spoke in riddled tones of three things to achieve: find and catch the Devil's Moose and bring it here to me. Seize the Stallion born of Fire, harness the Golden Horse. He captured and bound the Moose, he tamed the Golden Horse. Still there remained one final task: hunt for the Bird from the Stream of Death"

-Kalevala, Rune XIII-




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