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All metaphysical / paranormal phenomena explained


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soulman's picture
soulman
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Re: All metaphysical / paranormal phenomena explained

REM intrusion is not a paranormal/metaphysical event.

Mysteryshopper
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Re: All metaphysical / paranormal phenomena explained

No, it isn't! I was replying to your request for scientifically validated "reported paranormal experience". The fact that something is reported as paranormal does not mean that it actually is. even though it may appear so. When carefully investigated, the vast majority of reported paranormal phenomena have natural explanations.

My point is that saying an experience is REM intrusion is not to dismiss it, debunk it or declare it bogus. It is a perfectly valid experience that normal people can have in normal conditions. It is simply not a paranormal experience.

I know of no reported paranormal phenomenon that has been scientifically validated as paranormal or metaphysical. As I said earlier, at present, there is no hard scientific evidence for the paranormal. There is plenty of soft anecdotal, subjective evidence around. This may be enough for people to believe in the paranormal but it is not enough for science to validate it. Maybe one day the evidence will arrive to validate the paranormal.

soulman's picture
soulman
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Re: All metaphysical / paranormal phenomena explained
soulman's picture
soulman
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Re: All metaphysical / paranormal phenomena explained

My point precisely:

"I know of no reported paranormal phenomenon that has been scientifically validated as paranormal or metaphysical."

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soulman
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Re: All metaphysical / paranormal phenomena explained

Let's go back to this comment from you, an answer to my relating how I experienced two-way mental telepathy.

Here's your statement:

"You call it two-way telepathy but there was no actual swapping of verifiable information or even deliberate attempted communication. It tends to illustrate my point about things often being not quite as expected when full details are ascertained."

What do you mean there was "no actual swapping of verifiable information"? That's precisely what there was -- my companion's sensing my panic, and my sensing her distress.

It was a spontaneous telepathic event, a rather well-documented event during high-stress situations. (Mothers will suddenly know her daughter has been injured in a wreck, later confirmed, for instance.) It has been called a "telesomatic" event, where one person senses another's pain or distress.

We had something quite similar to that, a sensing of each other's emotions.

You can dismiss this as just another figment of my imagination, but that won't work. It happened, and it is not that unusual. If this illustrates your "scientific" standards, it proves my point precisely: that science is all too eager to dismiss all paranormal/metaphysical phenomena. You're ready to dismiss it in a flash, with a very bogus explanation. You are denying what occurred, a judgment which you have no proof whatsoever to support.

Unless you are calling us both liars -- which I don't think you are -- I fail to understand how you can so blithely dismiss this event as another "bogus" report.

Get your head out of the scientific sand, which is blinding you to discovering your spiritual self.

Mysteryshopper
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Re: All metaphysical / paranormal phenomena explained

I thought I had dealt with this "bogus" expression exhaustively already. Simply because I have an alternative explanation for something you describe as paranormal, it does not mean that I am denying it happened or dismissing it as "bogus2. I'm simply saying yours is not the only possible explanation.

So, regarding you ocean experience, no, I'm not saying anyone is lying. No, I'm not saying it was imagination. Yes, I believe you had a valid subjective experience. But, no, I don't think there is any verifiable evidence that it was a paranormal experience

The situation, as you describe it, appears as two people who were, understandably, anxious about each other in a stressful situation. You were in trouble in the water and she could not see you, both situations liable to lead to stress.

Who doesn't sometimes feel anxious about a friend or loved one from time to time (I certainly do) only to find there is nothing wrong. Sometimes, by random chance, those times of anxiety DO correspond with actual danger or distress to the other person and it can seem as though there has been a telepathic connection. If both people are anxious at the same time, it can feel doubly significant. But what about all the times you are anxious and there turned out to be no reason to be? Those times are quickly forgotten because they do not show anything remarkable. And yet they outhumber the apparent 'hits' many times over. Which is what you would expect from the action of random chance.

When you said two-way telepathy, I was expecting some bit of definite information, unknown and unpredictable, to be passed to and fro between two people. Instead it was two people who happened to be anxious about each other at the same time in a situation, swimming in the ocean, where possible peril is always to be expected.

I imagined it might be that one person had thought of a tree, say, for no particular reason and the other picked up that thought and then passed back their own idea, a cloud, say, which was in turn picked up. That would have been dramatic and unexpected and difficult to explain and fitted the idea of two way telepathy. I would describe your experience as one of coincidental mutual anxiety in a stressful situation.

Quote:

Get your head out of the scientific sand, which is blinding you to discovering your spiritual self.

Given that science has been outstandingly successful, compared to any other philosophical system, in explaining the worklngs of the universe, I will stick with it, thanks. It is science, not metaphysics, that allowed the invention of the computer and network that allows me to communicate these thoughts here. And as I mentioned with REM intrusion, it is well on its way to explaining many apparently paranormal reports right now!

Ian Topham's picture
Ian Topham
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Re: All metaphysical / paranormal phenomena explained
soulman wrote:

My point precisely: "I know of no reported paranormal phenomenon that has been scientifically validated as paranormal or metaphysical."

When science eventually has a full and rounded understanding of any given paranormal or metaphysical experience, won't that make that subject no longer paranormal in nature.  Instead would it not just become an accepted branch of physics or biology perhaps.

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soulman
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Re: All metaphysical / paranormal phenomena explained

Mysteryshopper:

Sorry my experience didn't meet your expectations. What did you expect us to be transmitting to each other at such a time, mathematical equations?

You fail to explain how you could so easily write off such an experience as unacceptable, when it clearly was a qualified "paranormal" event -- the transmission of information between two people separated by considerable space.

So much for your "scientific" view of things. You reject it, so it isn't paranormal. Just like science. BS, MS.

Ian, you are right, and this probability falls precisely within the parameters of Schopenhauer's famous axiom:

"All truth passes through three stages.
"First, it is ridiculed.
"Second, it is violently opposed.
"Third, it is accepted as being self-evident."

Arthur Schopenhauer
German philosopher
(1788 - 1860)

Mysteryshopper
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Re: All metaphysical / paranormal phenomena explained
soulman wrote:

You fail to explain how you could so easily write off such an experience as unacceptable, when it clearly was a qualified "paranormal" event -- the transmission of information between two people separated by considerable space.

You misunderstand, I think. I am saying that there is no evidence that ANY information was passed, regardless of distance. My explanation is that two people became anxious about each other at the same time by coincidence prompted, no doubt, psychologically by the stressful situation. Since this explanation requires no information transfer, it does not need to invoke telepathy or any other paranormal mechanism.

If I happen to think of the number 5, look up and notice I'm passing a house whose number is 5, that is a coincidence. I could just as easily have been passing house number 7 or 9.

If, on the other hand, I can say what number house I am passing, in a neighbourhood unknown to me, and be right much of the time, you would have to say it is not a coincidence. Your experience happened once in your lifetime which is easily possible through random chance.

soulman's picture
soulman
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Re: All metaphysical / paranormal phenomena explained

MS:

Your "explanation" is more BS to avoid the obvious.

You can't keep writing off valid human experiences as not meeting your "scientific" criteria, which is exactly how science continues to dismiss everything paranormal/metaphysical as bogus.

Remember, despite thousands of anecdotal reports from humanity spanning centuries, science didn't acknowledge the reality of meteorites (because "there are no stones in the sky") until the late 19th Century.

It refused to do so until two professors saw one fall and retrieved pieces from it. Then meteorites were real.

What do we need to have happen to convince science that the paranormal is real: have Stephen Hawking levitate in his wheelchair? In front of you?



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