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North Doors?


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indiagold
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Re: North Doors?

Well done,
you have done your homework. To answer your question about the highest point in Liverpool- it is now Woolton Hill(in the Suburbs)-you can see for miles and it is not for nothing that the roads around there reflect this eg. Beaconsfield Road.
The other thing about St Michael in the Hamlet-that is the Dingle It is a victorian church. Nevertheless there are possibilities in the naming of it.
However, this is digressing, we have to go back to the centre of Liverpool, when it was a little fishing village huddled around a small but convenient natural harbour where you as a sailor could take refuge from the ferocity of the Irish Sea. Because Liverpool developed so rapidly from circa 1600-1850ish there was much property development and as a result very little archaeological remains were noted. In short, any names do not relate to prehistory or even Roman times. But all is not lost, as on the heights overlooking Liverpool city centre, we have (one of the great ridges) called Low Hill. Entymology suggests that the word "low" usually means a burial place for the ancestors?

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indiagold
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Re: North Doors?

And, furthermore, the only name we have left from antiquity for Toxteth Park is schoctades or thereabouts-it's in the Domesday book. And Esamunde (smithdown). All various spellings of course. I know it looks like I am going off topic, but in the end the Chinese believed, that where you laid your ancestors, was vital for the health and wealth of the community,and for some reason, the North was important to them. And so as is often the case, we have come full circle-who is the Lady of the Dingle? She is the ancestor, who watches over the Mersey and its community, and she was buried on one of the hills overlooking her people.
Well, as I speak, the huge cargo ships are still coming in-safely into port I might add. So the property developers built over the tumuli.Never mind.

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megalith6
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Re: North Doors?
indiagold wrote:

... on the heights overlooking Liverpool city centre, we have (one of the great ridges) called Low Hill. Entymology suggests that the word "low" usually means a burial place for the ancestors?

"Low" possibly Anglo-Saxon meaning tumulus:'hlaewe'

megalith6
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Re: North Doors?
indiagold wrote:

And, furthermore, the only name we have left from antiquity for Toxteth Park is schoctades or thereabouts-it's in the Domesday book. And Esamunde (smithdown). All various spellings of course. I know it looks like I am going off topic, but in the end the Chinese believed, that where you laid your ancestors, was vital for the health and wealth of the community,and for some reason, the North was important to them. And so as is often the case, we have come full circle-who is the Lady of the Dingle? She is the ancestor, who watches over the Mersey and its community, and she was buried on one of the hills overlooking her people.
Well, as I speak, the huge cargo ships are still coming in-safely into port I might add. So the property developers built over the tumuli.Never mind.

There's a problem here. Low Hill is 3.5km / 2 miles away from Toxteth.

megalith6
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Re: North Doors?

'Lady of the Dingle': what is your reference for the gold and silver please?

Toxteth is possibly 'the stockaded place' so folk memory could theoretically stretch back a very long way in terms of this area ... the local "highest point, [is] at the corner of Smithdown Lane and Lodge Lane"

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=41287

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indiagold
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Re: North Doors?

Yes I know; but they were not buried in the community. That is the point. They end up on the boundaries-liminal areas Ditches, crossroads,hedgerows you name it. The community burial ground, it isn't. They are cast out of the community in death as in life. I can only assume, that by burying them in such places, it in some way,deprived them of their alleged powers.(for the worse presumably).
Otherwise, they would have been buried with the revered ancestors.

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megalith6
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Re: North Doors?
indiagold wrote:

Yes I know; but they were not buried in the community. That is the point. They end up on the boundaries-liminal areas Ditches, crossroads,hedgerows you name it. The community burial ground, it isn't. They are cast out of the community in death as in life. I can only assume, that by burying them in such places, it in some way,deprived them of their alleged powers.(for the worse presumably).
Otherwise, they would have been buried with the revered ancestors.

Ok. Firstly we need to identify the term liminal with respect to landscapes: it means on the edge of society or the edge of the area of land with which that community identified: it is a spiritual 'nomansland' in effect. This might indeed be a ditch but not necessarily so. Water is also liminal in that it frequently forms banks, shores and is a substance into which objects appear to disappear.

Secondly, what is your reference for the gold and silver association regarding the Lady of the Dingle please?

Many thanks.

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indiagold
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Re: North Doors?

I don't know about the gold and silver, but it sounds like a folk memory of people throwing stuff into a stream/river to placate the ancestors.
Like I said, it seems that She is the Goddess of the river-a guardian, if you like.
Interestingly, the Dingle is haunted by a woman in white.
It is/or was,a magical place

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megalith6
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Re: North Doors?
indiagold wrote:

I don't know about the gold and silver, but it sounds like a folk memory of people throwing stuff into a stream/river to placate the ancestors.
Like I said, it seems that She is the Goddess of the river-a guardian, if you like.
Interestingly, the Dingle is haunted by a woman in white.
It is/or was,a magical place

This all sounds perfectly fine but please - for the sake of folklore - quote or indicate *sources*, books, articles, casual conversation and/or so forth. You began this subthread by telling me this lady was associated with a high place, possibly a hill top, I have only ever found references to her in the Dingle. In English a 'dingle' is a dell, like a miniature valley, that's the very opposite of a hill top

http://www.yourdictionary.com/dingle

Thanks.



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