by Ian ·
When two people independantly see an apparition at the same time could it be some kind of mass hallucination and are they really seeing exactly the same thing?
When two people independantly see an apparition at the same time could it be some kind of mass hallucination and are they really seeing exactly the same thing?
by Ian · Published March 17, 2019 · Last modified March 17, 2021
by Ian · Published November 14, 2012 · Last modified November 23, 2018
by Ian · Published August 5, 2008 · Last modified December 29, 2018
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I do not believe in the
I do not believe in the classic "mass hallucination" scenario. Two neighbouring witnesses may influence each other but, again, there are a number of cases in which one person observed a phenomenon (UFO landing, ghost sighting etc) anf his/her companions absolutely nothing or had very different perceptions.
If two independent witnesses observe the same phenomenon there’s of course a very small possibility that they are both hallucinating but the most likely explanation is that they are both observing the same phenomenon and perhaps coming to the same conclusions.
Excellent discussion I have
Excellent discussion
I have never encountered a situation where two people (or more) saw exactly the same thing so questions of this type are known as ‘loaded’ – in the sense that they have untrue premises tied into them (i.e., that such a thing occurs).
The similarity is often in terms of location (like a haunted room) and not necesarrily the content of the experience. Now that is interesting – but it requires a totally different form of explanation.
There is a phenomenon known to psychologists as ‘psychological contagion’ where ideas / perceptions / impresessions can ‘infect’ other people. Anyone remember the radio play "war of the worlds" from the 1930s and what happened?
Especially on the subject of
Especially on the subject of UFOs I’d hazard a guess that there’s plenty of joint reports of mis-sightings and Devereux-style earth light sightings.
Apparitions are a little harder to call. Myself and a few others did all "see" a gate that wasn’t there at the Galleries of Justice once, although like a plonker I asked everyone "Can you see that gate down there", so there’s a strong possibility of suggestion involved. Interesting, all the same as it was very, very believable – not one of these "is it a shadow or isn’t it moments" – I actually just accepted that it was a real gate until I looked away and it dissapeared.
Matt.H wrote:
Especially on
[quote=Matt.H]Especially on the subject of UFOs I’d hazard a guess that there’s plenty of joint reports of mis-sightings and Devereux-style earth light sightings. [/quote]
I will certainly agree with you there Matt. I once had an instance of several witnesses to a UFO that had just stared at the sun too long.
It is often said that two people looking at a rainbow aren’t actually looking at the same rainbow as they are in two differant locations and it is an optical illusion.
So, unless the object in question, appartion, UFO etc is physically real you cannot really say any two witnesses are seeing exactly the same thing.
There’s some interesting
There’s some interesting examples over at http://www.roadghosts.com, particularly the number of joint sightings at Bluebell Hill over the years.
In the case of
In the case of misperception, there is a physical cause for the sighting (it’s just not what it appears). In this case, there is absolutely no reason why multiple witnesses shouldn’t see more or less the same thing without any need for ‘mass hallucination’.
Is it hallucination or just
Is it hallucination or just mass confusion and/ or misperception?
For example, I might believe that the animal I saw in my backyard was a kangaroo. It is highly unlikely that a kangaroo was in my yard – probably I mistook another animal for it. At the same time, it is possible that a kangaroo escaped from the Indianapolis Zoo and ate a short snack in my tulip bed. It is also possible that the animal I saw was another large brown animal and my brain said, "oh, look, large and brown, a kangaroo!"
Short of Doctor Who and LSD, I tend not to believe in mass hallucinations.
I have heard the term mass
I have heard the term mass hallucination but what does it mean? Is it a group of individuals sharing an hallucination and if so how can this work?
“A mass hallucination is a
"A mass hallucination is a phenomenon in which a large group of people, usually in physical proximity to each other, all experience the same hallucination simultaneously. Mass hallucination is the most common explanation for mass UFO sightings, appearances of the Virgin Mary, and other paranormal phenomena.
In most cases, mass hallucination refers to a combination of suggestion and pareidolia, wherein one person will see, or pretend to see, something unusual (like the face of Jesus in the burn-marks on a tortilla, or the face of a kidnapped girl on a blank billboard) and point it out to other people. Having been told what to look for, those other people will consciously or subconsciously convince themselves to recognize the apparition, and will in turn point it out to others.
In other cases, such as when separate people or separate groups of people who are not in contact with each other all experience the same phenomenon simultaneously, the explanation of mass hallucination can be just as "paranormal" as the phenomenon it’s being used to dismiss. "
I found the above on a site saying thet ripped it off Wikipedia in 2005. Wikipedia and some medical encyleopedia’s I have checked now direct mass hallucination requests to mass hysteria. I am not sure if it is a good description, what do you guys think?
That’s a pretty poor
That’s a pretty poor definition – they seem to be describing a form of peer-led misperception rather than any sort of hallucination. That’s a pretty important misperception in itself!
Matt.H wrote:
That’s a
[quote=Matt.H]That’s a pretty poor definition – they seem to be describing a form of peer-led misperception rather than any sort of hallucination. That’s a pretty important misperception in itself![/quote]
I wasn’t happy with it either. No wonder it was taken off Wikipedia.
In current science, the term
In current science, the term ‘mass hallucination’ makes little sense as a concept. Hallucinations are personal. That does not mean mass hallucinations cannot exist, though. If telepathy is real then people could share hallucinations.
One theoretical possibility is magnetically induced hallucinations which could affect several people (all in the same mag field) at once. Whether the content of those hallucinations would be identical, I’ve no idea.
In recorded cases of ‘mass hallucination’, such as religious visions, it seems much more likely that ‘mass misperception’ is at work.
Old example
I found this in a book called The lore of the Land,
On souther fell in 1747 on mid summers eve a young gentleman was riding across the fell when he felt he was being followed by several other riders, when he got a closer look he witnessed what he said to be a large mounted army. He called his family and they seemed to have been able to watch this spectacle for quite a while.
This was seen again on another mid summers eve and reported by 26 people, when they went to investigate the fell for hoof marks and signs of a large army they could find nothing. They were left unsure of what they had seen and convinced it was a spectral army as there was no way an army of the size they had witnessed could have been on the fell,due to the terrain. In 1821 it was decided that it was just an optical illusion and caused by a mirage. Other case like this one have also been reported at Helvellyn and at Edge hill.
Those are good historical
Those are good historical accounts Heeley- and I am sure that teh Souther Fell story appeared in the Gentlemens Magazine around the time of it supoosedly happening. The problem is I doubt we will ever truly know what was seen unless we get hold of the original witness statements.
Souther fell
Maybe you could recruit some poor brave soul to wander around up there this mid summers eve ? Any volunteer’s…
Heeley- wrote:
Maybe you
[quote=Heeley-]Maybe you could recruit some poor brave soul to wander around up there this mid summers eve ? Any volunteer’s…[/quote]
Strange you should say that. I was half planning to visit Castlerigg this solstice which is close to Blencathra and the Fell. I’m supposed to be camping as well though, so it all depends on time management.
Ian Topham wrote:
Heeley-
[quote=Ian Topham][quote=Heeley-]Maybe you could recruit some poor brave soul to wander around up there this mid summers eve ? Any volunteer’s…[/quote]
Strange you should say that. I was half planning to visit Castlerigg this solstice which is close to Blencathra and the Fell. I’m supposed to be camping as well though, so it all depends on time management.[/quote]
Are you planning to do Striding Edge again? they have not put a pub on top of Blencathra yet, could have sworn you said that was the only reason you would go up again 🙂 Might be worth tracking down the sources for the story – like you said I am sure it was Gentlemans Magazine.
Striding Edge? Do you mean
Striding Edge? Do you mean Sharp Edge?
He should mean Sharp Edge
He should mean Sharp Edge 🙂 I’m not sure if Dan has ever been up Blencathra.
Hey, my mistake, should have
Hey, my mistake, should have known, striding edge is a bit out of your league Ian.
I used to know a girl called Blencathra Tomlinson so you may be wrong in your assumption – not to lower the tone any, but then what the hell;-)
Off topic slightly
I bought the Lore of the Land book yesterday (in Australia mind you). Nice coincidence I think.
On the topic of mass hallucinations. I myself,do not believe in them. I understood hallucinations to be from the depths of you own mind,that has been manipulated by drugs/illness etc. Therefore mass hallucinations are not possible and I think someone already quoted them to be a "personal" thing/image.
If telepathy is a possible explanation,then I would find it quite frightening. The fact that I could have my thoughts or perceptions manipulated by another is a bit creepy.
someonestole shell
[quote=someonestole shell] I bought the Lore of the Land book yesterday (in Australia mind you). Nice coincidence I think.
On the topic of mass hallucinations. I myself,do not believe in them. I understood hallucinations to be from the depths of you own mind,that has been manipulated by drugs/illness etc. Therefore mass hallucinations are not possible and I think someone already quoted them to be a "personal" thing/image.
If telepathy is a possible explanation,then I would find it quite frightening. The fact that I could have my thoughts or perceptions manipulated by another is a bit creepy.[/quote]
You are actually back on topic, and we have been straying although telepathy is another can of worms, personally I don’t believe in it, but the I don’t know much about it.
Witch Trials
Most of the witch trials involved mass hallucinations which proved to be suggestions taken up by one and all in a state of hysteria.
Re: Mass Hallucination
Hi,
I can think of one form of mass hallucination and that is during the process of so called ‘transfiguration’.
Many times I have stood amongst a group of people who have all been asked to look at a person stood in front of them, usually in a half light and observe how that persons face transforms.
I have heard murmers ranging from, he has grown a beard, he’s turned into a ape, he’s become Chinese!!! It’s amazing that it only takes one person to make a comment about a facial change and suddenly the whole group can see it.
Personally I feel it’s down to making ‘sense out of chaos’. It’s like when you are shown a photograph and told that there is a face on it that shouldn’t be there. Quite often there is a natural reason for this, such as stains on a wall or reflections of light or an object photographed at an unusual angle.
Darkfaery