Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently

Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently

You may also like...

11 Responses

  1. Mauro says:

    Re: Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently
    The same university laboratory in the past managed to obtain a Shroud using chemicals and procedures available to XII/XIII century painters and dyers and run other interesting tests. Carbon dating proved pretty challenging because the Shroud was twice damaged in a fire (hence it was heavily contaminated) but by using sophisticated sampling and purification methods and the advanced mass accelerator at Oxford a date between 1260 and 1390 was obtained. Double blind studies carried out in Tucson and Zurich confirmed this. This is a pretty broad interval by today standards but given the aforementioned heavy contamination is deemed acceptable.
    Legal medicine was employed to study the image. It turned out a dead body cannot be made to cross its hands over his pube unless the arms are tied in place but there’s no trace of binds in the image.
    Archivists and historians tried to find out more about the Shroud early history. Turned out in 1389 the Bishop of Troyes sent a report to his boss (Pope Clemens VII) to inform him the Shroud was "skillfully painted". He even went as far as saying he talked to the painter himself, who assured him the Shroud was "the work of human hands". Sadly he forgot to mention the name of the painter. The following year Clemens VII authorized exposing the Shroud to the public, but with a number of caveat. In short he said this was a work of religious art, like a painting of the Crucifixion, and was to be treated as such, not as a relic or an object of veneration. "Divine Origin" was only declared in 1506 by Giulius II.
    Right now the Church sits on the fence, as to speak, not confirming nor denying the genuine origins of the Shrouds. Cult is technically authorized as an "icon", not as a "relic".
    This is probably to play "damage control": there are a number of other "officially recognized" Shrouds in Europe, the most famous in Oviedo.
    The Oviedo Shroud is radically different from the Turin one: it was apparently made by wrapping a genuine corpse in it and C14 tests give an older date, between 630 and 680.
    Its history is not as colorful as its famous counterpart but, apparently, it originated in Byzantine Palestine in the VII century and found its way to Spain through North Africa, just ahead of the Muslim onslaught. It was originally housed in Toledo but was moved to Oviedo for safekeeping when the Gothic kingdom crumbled under Arabian pressure.
    Also in 1998 an archeological team led by Dr Shimon Gibson unearthened a "genuine shroud" from the I century AD at the Akeldamach, in Jerusalem. While no object of religious veneration this is an extraordinary finding, as it allowed for comparison with both Shrouds.
    Both were found to be very, very different from the Palestinian "genuine article".

    Even if you believe in the authenticity of the Shroud, something has to give: which one is the real deal?

  2. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently
    It actually amazes me that laboratories are spending time and money on the shroud.  It must surely be a fake, so does it really matter how it was faked?

  3. abbeyboy says:

    Re: Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently
    But how do we know that it is supernatural? Who has said that it is ? And more inportantly,has it been verified?

  4. Mauro says:

    Re: Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently
    Just two words: theoretical research. It’s the cheapest kind of research. The personnel is already paid for, the machinery is already available and it gives people working in academic circles the chance to hone their skills and theoretical models. If it attracts mainstream attention and with it additional funding, it’s all for the better.

    As for the supernatural origin… there are already a number of rational explanations for it, all more acceptable than a burst of UV energy. One research put forward the theory it was painted by Giotto, the famed Italian artist from the early XIV century, or one of his disciples. This isn’t as farfetched as it sounds, as a number of well-known artists produced "fake" shrouds, including Albrecht Durer, the famous German engraver. In pre-Reformation Europe relics were a very lucrative market and, since Jesus hadn’t left nothing of His person behind, relics from the Passion were in strong demand and highly prized. King Louis IX of France (later canonised as St Louis) had a passion for such relics that bordered on the obsessive: he spent the astronomical sum of 135000 livres to purchase the Crown of Thorns and a single fragment of the Holy Cross from the Venetians (who obtained them from Baldwin, Latin Emperor of Byzantium, as a guarantee for a loan).  Just to give an idea of what this meant consider the church built to use these relics (the Sainte Chapelle) cost 60000 livres to build from scratch, including all the furniture, tapestry etc.

  5. abbeyboy says:

    Re: Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently
    So far as the shroud is concerned what actually takes place or has taken place that can be definitively termed supernatural ?

  6. Mauro says:

    Re: Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently
    [quote=abbeyboy]So far as the shroud is concerned what actually takes place or has taken place that can be definitively termed supernatural ?[/quote]

    Nothing that I know of.

    Technically speaking the Shroud doesn’t belong to the Church but to the Italian State (which inherited it from the Savoy royal family to which it belonged prior to 1948), which can do with it whatever it pleases. However since the Italian State has never made any ownership claims and the Church always paid for its upkeep, according to Italian law, it should now belong to the Church. The change of ownership must be formalized however and the procedure has been mired in red tape for over two years now.

  7. bedb says:

    Re: Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently
    I believe in the Shroud. I think it was once in Constantinople and that the face cloth in Spain is related to it. This is an act of faith because once upon a time I thought it was bogus.

    I no longer believe in UFOs….win some lose some.

  8. abbeyboy says:

    Re: Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently
    Why do you no longer believe in UFOs – There is so much evidence out there for their existence. Like anything which is controversial, there will always be hoaxers and tricksters making all manner of claims. However when you get a number of people seeing these things at the same time you tend to lean towards the existence of these objects. Do you know of the two Russian space craft,Phobos 1 and 2 ? If you are not familiar with these then just say so and I will tell you and you will again believe.

  9. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently
    I believe in UFO’s as they are frequently seen and reported, however, each experience has to be judged on its own merits as to what it may be.  I must say that I do not, at this moment, believe there is evidence of Alien spacecraft activity.

  10. abbeyboy says:

    Re: Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently
    I think you are having 2 bob each way but I am glad you have an open mind on the subject. I am not qualified to say whether UFOs come from another dimension because I have no personal knowledge of the subject but it appears unlikely that they are from earth (Russia,USA etc…).

  11. bedb says:

    Re: Turin Shroud IS Supernatural Apparently
    I posted a link to an excellent article on stealth dirigibles on the North American section. I saw a Lockheed-Martin link about 10 years ago that showed patent pending on what many people claim to be seeing. I think the patent has been approved.

    Neither Dr. Carl Sagan nor Dr.Stephen Hawkings believes that we are being visited by aliens…in fact Dr. Hawkins has stated the consequences would probably be leathal for us if they were.

    When I was a kid space aliens were long haired blondes…Roy Thinnes was in a TV show where he had to fight them on a weekly basis.

    Then came the blue guy with big heads like the Great Oz. That they have no muscles in their bodies and yet can wander around unheeded has not been explained.

    And the abduction from the fifties or early sixties…the multiethnic couple…first described beings that were very human looking…over time they evolved into something else.

    And lastly….I have had two cases of night terrors. Since I do not believe in UFOs….the monster in the room with me had more to do with Native American beliefs than space aliens. I think a lot of people are suffering from night terrors.

    What upsets me most about these ET reserachers is they have no respect or understanding of the cultures they are ripping off. Hayagriva of India has more to do with Ecne of Ireland than Steven Speilberg.