Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?

Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?

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25 Responses

  1. Daniel Parkinson says:

    Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    I think it’s highly likley that strategic sites that were easy to defend were re-used, so that could be the case for Pendragon Castle. Great bit of research. I think the Arthur legend is difficult to place exactly because it deals with a time of turmoil when the Romans left, and the threads of the myth have developed as time went by, and every region seems to want to lay claim to the real Arthur.

  2. Ian Topham says:

    Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    There are certainly tales connecting Cumbria with Arthur.  When I first started investing in Cumbria, a good five or so years before moving up here, I started to hear of the Arthur tradition centred around the county.

    I cannot remember the sources off the top of my head but there was a suggestion that Ravenglass was the port from which the wounded Arthur was taken away to Avalon.  Ravenglass was a major Roman port with it’s own fort and bath house.  Carlisle and it’s fort (which lies under Tullie House Museum, the bypass and the castle) has been linked, probably because it garrisoned cavalry I think and this ties in nicely with the thought of mounted knights.

    There has also been suggestions of Birdoswald being linked to Arthur and the fort was certainly the base of a Dark Age Chieftan after the Romans departed.

  3. steve_ash says:

    Templar connection (of course)
     There’s an interesting Templar link as well, as the Vipont family were very much connected with the Templars and probably sponsored their local estate at Temple Sowerby, just north of Appleby, the nearest Preceptory appears to have been Temple Dove Scar on the Dales between Yorkshire and Cumbria.  

  4. steve_ash says:

    A bit of mythic speculation

     Contemplating some of the myths of the region I realised an interesting feature of the area north of Pendragon Castle, at Appleby, a seat of the Cliffords and Viponts, was the strange meterological phenomenon known as the Helm wind . A near hurricane force wind that unpredictably rushes through the valley in Spring, arising from air currents over the barren mount of Cross Fell (a high point in the region, formerly known as Fiends Fell, due to its association with demons. Now mounted with a cross after a medieval exorcism was performed there apparently). This got me wondering if the Helm wind was associated with any more pagan myths, and specifically wondered if it could have been linked with the evil dragon that Uther battled.

     

    Then I read that the Fell is rich in copper, and has a lot of bronze age sites near it, but the copper is mixed with lead that has to be seperated. So I tried to think like a bronze age myth maker and came up with this speculative tale. The Fell contains treasure (the copper) guarded by a dragon (lead) who also manifest as the destructive Helm wind (which presumably would have to be appeased). The dragon also has to be defeated and the treasure retrieved (the lead burnt off and seperated from the copper) and as copper was linked to Venus classically, perhaps the copper was also a maiden to be rescued from the underground prison of the Saturnine dragon?  Saturn being associated both with lead, restriction and the destructive elements of nature.  Though it is also a protective force so perhaps the victor (Uther) takes the power of the dragon for himself as protector of the maiden. As the bronze agers would have wanted to combine the copper with tin to make bronze, perhaps some Jovial (tin = Jupiter) Sky god from Cornwall also wanted to marry the maiden (nicely linking the West Country and Cumbria, via the historically linked Wales and Chester). I’m sure an Irish Sun god was linked to some gold from Ireland too, lots of Irish connections with Cumbria and a need to trade something other than copper for tin! πŸ™‚

    Well its a nice story lol.

    • heeley- says:

      Welsh link/cumbria
      The strong link with cumbria and wales I think comes from around the 6th century when cumbria was invaded and some of the tribes escaped down the coast to what is north wales. Taking with them language, place names and local legends.
      As for the Helm wind there was one a few weeks ago, I remember being blown over whilst trying to move house in Appleby during a helm wind, not a good idea πŸ™‚
      Maybe the new settlement they found last year outside Brougham will give us more information.

  5. mary sunshine says:

    whelpdales of cumbria
    I am interested in the history of Roger de Whelpdale  one time Bishop of Carlisle and his descendants. His relationship with the nobility and royalty of his time. His birth place, siblings and other relations. His sojourns in London and cause of death

  6. Heeley- says:

    BBC Link

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/cumbria/enjoy_cumbria/heritage/arthurian_legend/arthur.shtml

    Two pages of places to check out and follow the legends.

  7. Ian Topham says:

    Thanks for the link
    Thanks for the link Sharon.  I noticed it states that Arthur was trained by the Roman Wall.  We assume it means Hadrians Wall thus placing him in Cumbria/Northumberland, but there was of course the Antonine Wall between Glasgow and Edinburgh (roughly) and the lost Roman wall of Septimius Severus, which some have suggested could be Offa’s Dyke.

  8. Heeley- says:

    Arthuret Church
    Have you ever had any stories around Arthuret ? I’m sure there is also one about Merlin, something about him going mad and fleeing into the nearby woods….

  9. Daniel Parkinson says:

    The furthest place North (to
    The furthest place North (to my knowledge) with an Arthurian place name is Ben Arthur, also known as the Cobbler in the Arochar Alps about an hours drive North of Glasgow, it’s a popular climbing/walking destination and looks imposing due to its double rocky summit – I have never been able to find any legends or folklore linking it to Arthur apart from the name, but it is an example of an Arthur naming in what is the highlands. Merlin has recently been placed as a Glaswegian according to local press. Again bbc has a good link:

    news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8054420.stm

    news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6965593.stm

    And for anybody not in the know this makes Merlin a Weegie: http://www.weegieweb.org.uk/ 
    If he was from Glasgow of course.

  10. Heeley- says:

    North
     It makes me sooooo happy when they link them to the north πŸ™‚ I will be smiling all day,thanks Daniel.

    • Daniel Parkinson says:

      Heeley- wrote:
      Β It makes

      [quote=Heeley-] It makes me sooooo happy when they link them to the north πŸ™‚ I will be smiling all day,thanks Daniel.
      [/quote]
      Glad I could cheer you up.

  11. brian says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    Although the West Country & Wales is predominatly linked to Arthur, mainly becouse of Glastonbury & Tintagel, There is strong oral evidence linking him to the North West.  I attended a talk at a pagan group a few years back where the guy giving the talk produced compelling theories linking Arthur to Cumbria.
    it would certainly put the West country noses out of joint!

  12. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    [quote=brian]It would certainly put the West country noses out of joint![/quote]

    I’d agree there Brian.  It may also damage tourism in those areas as well.  Thinking about tourism, Cumbria Tourist Board should try and promote it’s possible links to Arthur.

  13. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    [quote=brian]It would certainly put the West country noses out of joint![/quote]

    I’d agree there Brian.  It may also damage tourism in those areas as well.  Thinking about tourism, Cumbria Tourist Board should try and promote it’s possible links to Arthur. 

  14. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    [quote=brian]It would certainly put the West country noses out of joint![/quote]

    I’d agree there Brian.  It may also damage tourism in those areas as well.  Thinking about tourism, Cumbria Tourist Board should try and promote it’s possible links to Arthur.  lets

  15. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    [quote=brian]It would certainly put the West country noses out of joint![/quote]

    I’d agree there Brian.  It may also damage tourism in those areas as well.  Thinking about tourism, Cumbria Tourist Board should try and promote it’s possible links to Arthur.  lets face

  16. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    [quote=brian]It would certainly put the West country noses out of joint![/quote]

    I’d agree there Brian.  It may also damage tourism in those areas as well.  Thinking about tourism, Cumbria Tourist Board should try and promote it’s possible links to Arthur.  lets face it,

  17. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    [quote=brian]It would certainly put the West country noses out of joint![/quote]

    I’d agree there Brian.  It may also damage tourism in those areas as well.  Thinking about tourism, Cumbria Tourist Board should try and promote it’s possible links to Arthur.  lets face it, there

  18. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    [quote=brian]It would certainly put the West country noses out of joint![/quote]

    I’d agree there Brian.  It may also damage tourism in those areas as well.  Thinking about tourism, Cumbria Tourist Board should try and promote it’s possible links to Arthur.  lets face it, there is a

  19. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    [quote=brian]It would certainly put the West country noses out of joint![/quote]

    I’d agree there Brian.  It may also damage tourism in those areas as well.  Thinking about tourism, Cumbria Tourist Board should try and promote it’s possible links to Arthur.  lets face it, there is

  20. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    [quote=brian]It would certainly put the West country noses out of joint![/quote]

    I’d agree there Brian.  It may also damage tourism in those areas as well.  Thinking about tourism, Cumbria Tourist Board should try and promote it’s possible links to Arthur.  lets face it, there is as much

  21. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    [quote=brian]It would certainly put the West country noses out of joint![/quote]

    I’d agree there Brian.  It may also damage tourism in those areas as well.  Thinking about tourism, Cumbria Tourist Board should try and promote it’s possible links to Arthur.  lets face it, there is as

  22. Ian Topham says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    [quote=brian]It would certainly put the West country noses out of joint![/quote]

    I’d agree there Brian.  It may also damage tourism in those areas as well.  Thinking about tourism, Cumbria Tourist Board should try and promote it’s possible links to Arthur. 

  23. megalith6 says:

    Re: Uther Pendragon in Cumbria?
    Laudine

    name reminds me of Melusine?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melusine